This is what I could gather so far...
Michael, I liked this link in particular: http://www.theocracywatch.org/rr_economics.htm - as I am particularly interested in the Christian response to the economics issues rather than just the "right wing" response, which is always assumed to be Christian but is often not, in my opinion. I liked this take on it a lot. I also liked your use of Catholic resources. I find that helpful and refreshing. Also the trinitarian stuff is interesting: http://www.acton.org/publicat/m_and_m/2001_fall/woehrling.html . However, I am not sure if we should just embrace an entire economic/political system and hope "true Christians" do well with it. However I do like his thoughts as quoted, "Christians could pursue a successful business life and engage in social work and in political organization while never confronting directly the specific problem raised by economics; namely, the rational allocation of resources with the aim of minimizing scarcity by maximizing wealth." I agree and think this is KEY. I don't think most wealthy and oblivious Christians are attempting to create poverty for others. I just think we have created a white-collar system that keeps most of the rich from ever having to see what their actions/choices mean for others down the ladder from them. I have a friend who is a realstate agent. He just bought an expenseive Mercedes. I don't think he is bad. I just don't think he asks himself the question of whether or not he actually needed that... I don't think most of us on a daily basis consciously think about how our individual consumer choices have spiritual power. I wish us to be confronted more with that reality.
Justin, I read Liquid Church this summer for another class I had on Emerging Church Leadership. I like Ward's notions of consumerism. He also really challenges the consumer mentality in church, but that is a side note. I like how you picked up his implications of consumerism and brought it home with stats for me. I had a "pin" issue with my bankcard/visa this weekend. I only use that card. My mom is not doing well. Gosh, I wanted to shop this weekend but couldn't do it. I had to live on the little cash I had. I was fine. But the pull to purchase something "fun" to deal with my conflicting emotions is so great. It is like an addiction. We are addicted to buying stuff.
Paul, your blog is hard for me to follow for some reason. I think the analysis is recent so I will comment on that. I do agree that personal holiness plays a part. I liked your stuff on Wesley in general. I do think that we all bear personal responsibility to each other. Their is a "social gospel" and I like how Wesley deals with that. I also liked this article: http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/commentaries/02/may.htm
I quote also this fact that was interesting, "Williams states that the more personal freedom the government of one country gives to it's citizens, the wealthier the country. The more a country dominates, through governmental policy, he stated, "the poorer the country." It is weird that I have always viewed this kinds of ideas as so liberal. But it fascinates me now. Having looked at both minimum wage for the working poor and our current welfare system I see a direct link. When government dominates for almost any reason corruption inevitably follows. And that corruption then tends to perpetuate government dominance and the increase of lower classes and poverty. Increased government programs are not necessarily the answer. I shock myself!
Michael, I liked this link in particular: http://www.theocracywatch.org/rr_economics.htm - as I am particularly interested in the Christian response to the economics issues rather than just the "right wing" response, which is always assumed to be Christian but is often not, in my opinion. I liked this take on it a lot. I also liked your use of Catholic resources. I find that helpful and refreshing. Also the trinitarian stuff is interesting: http://www.acton.org/publicat/m_and_m/2001_fall/woehrling.html . However, I am not sure if we should just embrace an entire economic/political system and hope "true Christians" do well with it. However I do like his thoughts as quoted, "Christians could pursue a successful business life and engage in social work and in political organization while never confronting directly the specific problem raised by economics; namely, the rational allocation of resources with the aim of minimizing scarcity by maximizing wealth." I agree and think this is KEY. I don't think most wealthy and oblivious Christians are attempting to create poverty for others. I just think we have created a white-collar system that keeps most of the rich from ever having to see what their actions/choices mean for others down the ladder from them. I have a friend who is a realstate agent. He just bought an expenseive Mercedes. I don't think he is bad. I just don't think he asks himself the question of whether or not he actually needed that... I don't think most of us on a daily basis consciously think about how our individual consumer choices have spiritual power. I wish us to be confronted more with that reality.
Justin, I read Liquid Church this summer for another class I had on Emerging Church Leadership. I like Ward's notions of consumerism. He also really challenges the consumer mentality in church, but that is a side note. I like how you picked up his implications of consumerism and brought it home with stats for me. I had a "pin" issue with my bankcard/visa this weekend. I only use that card. My mom is not doing well. Gosh, I wanted to shop this weekend but couldn't do it. I had to live on the little cash I had. I was fine. But the pull to purchase something "fun" to deal with my conflicting emotions is so great. It is like an addiction. We are addicted to buying stuff.
Paul, your blog is hard for me to follow for some reason. I think the analysis is recent so I will comment on that. I do agree that personal holiness plays a part. I liked your stuff on Wesley in general. I do think that we all bear personal responsibility to each other. Their is a "social gospel" and I like how Wesley deals with that. I also liked this article: http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/commentaries/02/may.htm
I quote also this fact that was interesting, "Williams states that the more personal freedom the government of one country gives to it's citizens, the wealthier the country. The more a country dominates, through governmental policy, he stated, "the poorer the country." It is weird that I have always viewed this kinds of ideas as so liberal. But it fascinates me now. Having looked at both minimum wage for the working poor and our current welfare system I see a direct link. When government dominates for almost any reason corruption inevitably follows. And that corruption then tends to perpetuate government dominance and the increase of lower classes and poverty. Increased government programs are not necessarily the answer. I shock myself!
posted by ErinW at 9:18 PM
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